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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s an Ex-Parrot</title>
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	<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/</link>
	<description>Examining, Surviving and Loving life with Parrots</description>
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		<title>By: rebecca</title>
		<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/comment-page-1/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/?p=783#comment-648</guid>
		<description>Interesting. They are surely individuals every last one, Raz. It&#039;s easy to forget sometimes how different each parrot can be within a species, but we shouldn&#039;t! 

Mary, It is heartbreaking. Surely a relationship where your sig other made you give up a parrot you would cry over losing could never make the long haul...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. They are surely individuals every last one, Raz. It&#8217;s easy to forget sometimes how different each parrot can be within a species, but we shouldn&#8217;t! </p>
<p>Mary, It is heartbreaking. Surely a relationship where your sig other made you give up a parrot you would cry over losing could never make the long haul&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Raz</title>
		<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/comment-page-1/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>Raz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 03:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/?p=783#comment-642</guid>
		<description>I do believe some non-natural vocalizations are self-reinforcing.  Carly in particular often &quot;riffs&quot; on certain words or phrases, and the ones she learns and sticks with are the ones she does that the most with.  By riffing I mean doing a lot of repetitions with different intonations, stressing different syllables, drawing out certain sounds, using various voices, changing a word to another similar word, etc.

Unfortunately one of those happened when I was moving and wearing sandals. I&#039;m usually very careful, but I&#039;d really smashed my foot.  She picked up &quot;OW F---!&quot; after one hearing and continues it a year later.  (By &quot;continue&quot; I mean yelling it at the top of her lungs from the balcony.) I do not react to it unless I&#039;m in the other room where she can&#039;t see me, and I allow myself a laugh. She learned &quot;Stand up! Stand up! dammit&quot; in a similar way (long story, but it did NOT involve me having too much to drink!)  That one turned into &quot;Step up dammit!&quot; and faded after a year or so (thank goodness -- really, this is not how I train a step up).  But OW-F is one she gets into different intonations of, which is what she does with the vocalizations she uses the most.  

Piper on the other hand tends to pick up words and phrases he hears a lot that refer to things we see or do.  Instead of riffing on them and altering them, he practices them so they are clearer mimics.  I can see those fading out if he didn&#039;t hear them any longer.  But if a word or phrase is one that is inherently &quot;fun&quot; to do, it might take quite some time.  

My suspicion though is that the Grey living with the distressed girlfriend is merely saying something s/he heard a lot, not something that&#039;s especially vocally rewarding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe some non-natural vocalizations are self-reinforcing.  Carly in particular often &#8220;riffs&#8221; on certain words or phrases, and the ones she learns and sticks with are the ones she does that the most with.  By riffing I mean doing a lot of repetitions with different intonations, stressing different syllables, drawing out certain sounds, using various voices, changing a word to another similar word, etc.</p>
<p>Unfortunately one of those happened when I was moving and wearing sandals. I&#8217;m usually very careful, but I&#8217;d really smashed my foot.  She picked up &#8220;OW F&#8212;!&#8221; after one hearing and continues it a year later.  (By &#8220;continue&#8221; I mean yelling it at the top of her lungs from the balcony.) I do not react to it unless I&#8217;m in the other room where she can&#8217;t see me, and I allow myself a laugh. She learned &#8220;Stand up! Stand up! dammit&#8221; in a similar way (long story, but it did NOT involve me having too much to drink!)  That one turned into &#8220;Step up dammit!&#8221; and faded after a year or so (thank goodness &#8212; really, this is not how I train a step up).  But OW-F is one she gets into different intonations of, which is what she does with the vocalizations she uses the most.  </p>
<p>Piper on the other hand tends to pick up words and phrases he hears a lot that refer to things we see or do.  Instead of riffing on them and altering them, he practices them so they are clearer mimics.  I can see those fading out if he didn&#8217;t hear them any longer.  But if a word or phrase is one that is inherently &#8220;fun&#8221; to do, it might take quite some time.  </p>
<p>My suspicion though is that the Grey living with the distressed girlfriend is merely saying something s/he heard a lot, not something that&#8217;s especially vocally rewarding.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/?p=783#comment-641</guid>
		<description>We had a parrot surrendered to the rescue where I volunteer who did something similar.  Though it wasn&#039;t *talking* in the ex-girlfriend&#039;s voice but bedroom sounds she made.  (And the perfect example of why you need to be careful about getting intimate in front of a parrot -- something that creeps me out anyway!)

Still, it made me sad that the guy acquiesced to his new girlfriend and surrendered his bird.  He was crying when he left.  I&#039;ve always wondered if he felt it was worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had a parrot surrendered to the rescue where I volunteer who did something similar.  Though it wasn&#8217;t *talking* in the ex-girlfriend&#8217;s voice but bedroom sounds she made.  (And the perfect example of why you need to be careful about getting intimate in front of a parrot &#8212; something that creeps me out anyway!)</p>
<p>Still, it made me sad that the guy acquiesced to his new girlfriend and surrendered his bird.  He was crying when he left.  I&#8217;ve always wondered if he felt it was worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: rebecca</title>
		<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/comment-page-1/#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 02:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/?p=783#comment-622</guid>
		<description>I respectfully disagree, Virginia, on one little point. It will not take years or even months for that vocal behavior to change. If no one reacts to it, it will go away very quickly. I can&#039;t think of many reasons why any vocal behaviors (not natural calls) would be self-reinforcing... actually I can&#039;t think of any off the top of my head. (But surely I&#039;m missing some.) 

The purpose of most learned vocalizations is reaction, which is communicating, right? So you&#039;re right. The people are surely reinforcing it. (And I suspect the boyfriend because although the bird would be annoying, it is surely the BOYFRIEND whose attitude and reactions to whole thing are pissing the new girlfriend off. Ten bucks says she&#039;s not mad at the bird, she&#039;s mad at her boyfriend, really.) 

Screaming is a different story of course... that is usually a long train by the time it gets out of hand with tons of reinforcement. And its difficult to ignore and so very difficult not to reinforce once it gets started.

With phrases though, I know of several parrots who have had certain things they say quickly weeded out of their vocabulary. Shaping vocal behaviors is a cinch if you pay attention...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I respectfully disagree, Virginia, on one little point. It will not take years or even months for that vocal behavior to change. If no one reacts to it, it will go away very quickly. I can&#8217;t think of many reasons why any vocal behaviors (not natural calls) would be self-reinforcing&#8230; actually I can&#8217;t think of any off the top of my head. (But surely I&#8217;m missing some.) </p>
<p>The purpose of most learned vocalizations is reaction, which is communicating, right? So you&#8217;re right. The people are surely reinforcing it. (And I suspect the boyfriend because although the bird would be annoying, it is surely the BOYFRIEND whose attitude and reactions to whole thing are pissing the new girlfriend off. Ten bucks says she&#8217;s not mad at the bird, she&#8217;s mad at her boyfriend, really.) </p>
<p>Screaming is a different story of course&#8230; that is usually a long train by the time it gets out of hand with tons of reinforcement. And its difficult to ignore and so very difficult not to reinforce once it gets started.</p>
<p>With phrases though, I know of several parrots who have had certain things they say quickly weeded out of their vocabulary. Shaping vocal behaviors is a cinch if you pay attention&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia S. Wood, Psy.D.</title>
		<link>http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/2009/12/its-an-ex-parrot/comment-page-1/#comment-621</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginia S. Wood, Psy.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heckledbyparrots.com/blog/?p=783#comment-621</guid>
		<description>It will take months, if not years, if ever for Michael to get the behavior to extinguish, because lot of parrots&#039; routines appear to be self-reinforcing. It is also possible that if she&#039;s giving an emotional reaction every time the bird says it, SHE&#039;S the one inadvertently reinforcing the behavior. 

Because the parrot learned a behavior by modeling on the ex, I&#039;m gonna guess it&#039;s bonded to Michael--so giving it away would be cruel. The quickest way to peace in that household may be to reframe the whole thing: The current girlfriend needs to take each utterance as the parrot saying S/HE (are we sure it&#039;s a him?) loves Michael. Then, unless the girlfriend feels threatened by a 1-1/2-lb. bird, all should be well. 

As for visitation, if the bird is bonded to Michael, she isn&#039;t missing the ex and doesn&#039;t need visitation. It is the ex who will need to move on--hard for her, but there it is.

My two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will take months, if not years, if ever for Michael to get the behavior to extinguish, because lot of parrots&#8217; routines appear to be self-reinforcing. It is also possible that if she&#8217;s giving an emotional reaction every time the bird says it, SHE&#8217;S the one inadvertently reinforcing the behavior. </p>
<p>Because the parrot learned a behavior by modeling on the ex, I&#8217;m gonna guess it&#8217;s bonded to Michael&#8211;so giving it away would be cruel. The quickest way to peace in that household may be to reframe the whole thing: The current girlfriend needs to take each utterance as the parrot saying S/HE (are we sure it&#8217;s a him?) loves Michael. Then, unless the girlfriend feels threatened by a 1-1/2-lb. bird, all should be well. </p>
<p>As for visitation, if the bird is bonded to Michael, she isn&#8217;t missing the ex and doesn&#8217;t need visitation. It is the ex who will need to move on&#8211;hard for her, but there it is.</p>
<p>My two cents.</p>
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